Author Topic: Experiences with Update Style in RTF Templates  (Read 4795 times)

skiwi

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Re: Experiences with Update Style in RTF Templates
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2012, 11:33:38 am »
My frustration level (actually the inability to actually update styles in 930) has grown to the point where I have reported the following (along with pix, model and normal files) to EA


I have observed a number of issues while using the File Update Styles function in the RTF editor to update Document Templates in the Model (ie our defined templates).
EA version 930

Note that this is using W7 32 bit and the normal.rtf document is in the directory
C:\Users\username\AppData\Roaming\Sparx Systems\EA\RTF Templates
(I note EA doc shows this junction as %APPDATA%\Sparx Systems\EA\RTF Templates)
 

1) When I update the styles the editor closes without prompting me to save

2) It would be preferable if the style file location is shown (so we can see what directory we are loading it from)
and the option to browsed to another file was available.

3) Updates to heading styles to not carry font colour settings across
4) Updates to styles do not carry font size across (eg Normal, Body Text)

5) When updating one specific template the style “Heading 5 Char” is shown.
This is one of a number of similar “Char” styles shown in the drop down box
Yet when I try to Edit Styles and delete them, they are not shown, how do I delete them?

6) It would be valuable if EA provided a means of updating a selection, or all model document templates at one time.
It is a hugely manual process to update a large number of templates.


Overall it appears that the Updates Styles functionality is not working in 930.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 11:35:36 am by skiwi »
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Graham_Moir

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Re: Experiences with Update Style in RTF Templates
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2012, 10:15:13 pm »
Totally agree this needs sorting out, and a real disappointment that 9.3 does nothing about it.  

I also have an additional similar issue with list numbering/overrides in build 922 - haven't tried this in 930.   I set one up to provide consistent numbering through a master/model document set up and then found that it didn't work.

I took the following approach:
- created a new template
- imported normal.rtf from the %appdata% location
- created the list override and all the heading numbering down to level 9
- set up the heading 1 to 9 styles to use the numbering
- tested all the styles within this new template, seemed to work OK
- exported normal.rtf to a neutral location, deleted the existing normal.rtf and placed in the %appdata% location
- threw away this template
- started again, created a new template not copying from any existing template
- immediately did an "updates styles".  The list override was not included in the heading definitions   :(

Bug reported
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 03:34:58 am by Graham_Moir »

Michael Proske

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Re: Experiences with Update Style in RTF Templates
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2012, 10:11:35 pm »
I made a bug report of the heading topic. Reply is that this feature is not planned. The behaviour you see with headings is expected by Sparx and not a bug. So just forgot Update Styles functionality it will not work as expected.

skiwi

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Update Style in RTF Templates: Style properties
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2012, 11:40:32 am »
One of the issues that compounds the update styles problem is that the visibility of the style settings in the RTF editor is remarkably opaque.

That is to say that once the styles have been updated it is remarkably hard to determine what the style setting are.
(Printing and examining in Word can give the clearest picture).

Further, not all the settings that are loaded are editable, even though some of them are visible (eg setting a line height to exactly 8pt).

My feature request is for a properties box for styles within the RTF editor, which settings can be viewed and changed.
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skiwi

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Re: Experiences with Update Style in RTF Templates
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2012, 09:04:52 am »

Finally, and perhaps the most significant - I welcome your feedback on this ...

When the styles are updated in the linked document or template the document's appearance does not change.
Actually what has happened is that the definition of the styles has been updated (more or less).

What is needed IMHO is an option to "reapply" the styles in the document.
This should reapply all style formatting in the document, thus all changes would become visible.

As for non style formatting (shown under the heading "Font" in Word's Reveal Formatting) I'd don't care either way whether they are preserved or not.




See also
Experiences with Update Style in RTF Templates
Update Styles in RTF template seems incomplete



« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 09:07:29 am by skiwi »
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skiwi

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Re: Experiences with Update Style in RTF Templates
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2012, 06:56:31 am »
I'm still struggling with multi-level list numbering in heading in generated rtf documents. This sort of nonsense ...


In trying to understand what is going on, and how to fix it in normal.rtf, my document templates, and in the generated document, I've found the following references that you too may find useful.

How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in Word 2007 and Word 2010
How to modify styles in Microsoft Word
and a word of caution
How to number chapters, appendixes, and pages in documents that contain both chapter and appendix headings in Word

Just remember folks, don't try this at home.

In summary it seems to me:
1) A named list style is required to define the numbering, and this needs to be linked to the heading styles. viz

2) The RTF editor needs to support named list styles, and the linking of them to heading styles.
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Graham_Moir

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Re: Experiences with Update Style in RTF Templates
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2012, 07:00:33 pm »
Thanks for the links related to Word, but doesn't it add an extra layer of complexity/confusion by looking to address this in Ms Office rather than in the rtf generation process ?  

In my experience, the numbering requires the same list override in all templates in the master/model documents.  Setting up an override in a new template that has the same attributes as one used elsewhere won't work, and adding it to normal.rtf doesn't seem to help either, so the only option appears to be to copy an existing template that has the list override already defined - that way you know you're using the same one.

skiwi

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Re: Experiences with Update Style in RTF Templates
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2012, 06:44:55 am »
I'm not looking to address this in Word per se, however the reference implementation for RTF (v1.9.1) would have to be Word.
In addition I expect that
- normal.rtf is created/maintained using Word
- RTF generated documents are opened and printed using Word
- sometimes to get the formatting required document templates are exported, updated, and imported due to shortcomings in the internal editor
Therefore numbering has to work in Word.
It doesn't.
EA need to generate RTF that works in Word, hence my suggestions.

The references I provided are those that enabled be to delve deep enough to fix the broken definition of the styles generated by EA in order to get the numbering to work in my documents.

I'm not quite sure what you are referring to by "copying an existing template.
If you mean each time you create a new document template I agree that approach is necessary, Word does not like different version of styles in a document (and this happens as EA generates model document as far as I can see [elsewhere it has been suggested that EA only generate the styles once]).

I am interested in how I can update my styles in (all) existing document templates, and recreating them from scratch by copying an existing template isn't reasonable or really feasible,
and most importantly have this NOT break the heading numbering.



See also
RTF Template: after changes fields not substituted
RTF Documentation issues
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 06:46:03 am by skiwi »
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Michael Proske

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Re: Experiences with Update Style in RTF Templates
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2012, 12:17:45 am »
Please do not create normal.rtf with word. The RTF created by word has much more information EA can understand. Normal.rtf for EA is a quite simple file with only basic style information.

skiwi

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Re: Experiences with Update Style in RTF Templates
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2012, 06:23:24 am »
Quote
Please do not create normal.rtf with word. The RTF created by word has much more information EA can understand. Normal.rtf for EA is a quite simple file with only basic style information.
Thanks, but where does it say this in the documentation?

What "basic style information" does EA understand?
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skiwi

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Re: Experiences with Update Style in RTF Templates
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2012, 06:29:42 am »
Sparx got back to me on the numbering issue.

Quote
The issue is that you have not chosen two separate lists for level 1 and 2 headings.
This is present through out the user defined templates.

One example on (template)...

GENERIC-Text
Select Element.Name and form its context menu go to Paragraph->List Numbering

Notice the list chosen is "List Override #001"

If you select PKG.Name and from its context menu go to Paragraph->List Numbering

Notice the list chosen is "List: list670593188 Override #002"

Both of heading lvl 1 & 2 should belong to a common list if you need the numbering based on those levels.

http://www.sparxsystems.com/enterprise_architect_user_guide/9.3/reporting/user_defined_list_numbering.html

While I have yet to check this out in detail, especially my normal.rtf,
I should note that all styles were loaded/updated from normal.rtf, so I'd expect them to be consistent, and I know that numbering in the normal.rtf works correctly.
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skiwi

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Re: Experiences with Update Style in RTF Templates
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2012, 09:19:34 am »
Of all the things v10 could have fixed this is the one I miss the most.

Bah humbug.
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Graham_Moir

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Re: Experiences with Update Style in RTF Templates
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2013, 10:18:17 pm »
Totally agree.  The frustration and time wasting associated with this is ENORMOUS.

Ian Mitchell

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Re: Experiences with Update Style in RTF Templates
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2013, 12:43:53 am »
If it's a detailed but stress-free integration between Word and EA you're looking for, have a look at eaDocX. I got so frustrated with spending ages producing average-looking documents using the RTF generator that I quit my job to write it. It'll pay for itself inside of a month.
Ian Mitchell, Designer, eaDocX

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www.theartfulmodeller.com

skiwi

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Re: Experiences with Update Style in RTF Templates
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2013, 02:50:10 pm »
I asked support (for EA 10)

I have a lot of problems with heading (multilevel list) numbering.
I have created an entirely new normal.rtf and am using the FILE | UPDATE STYLES menu to update the styles in all my document templates (in which we have made a considerable investment), but after I do this heading numbering is as bad as ever.

Steps to Reproduce:  
I decided to investigate what List override there were in the various document templates I have with a view to removing most of them.
In the attached image you can  see the document template has many many list overrides - no wonder I don't know what I am getting.
How do I delete all the old (leftover) document list overrides?

Here is the answer
With the List Overrides as these can be referenced within the document their removal can seriously alter the document structure, this is why both Word and the RTF editor do not offer options to remove these.

[highlight]With the Update Styles - this does not support updating of the List Numbering. [/highlight]

There is a method to use a List Number across multiple templates in a Virtual Document by setting the List Override in the Normal.rtf (See the text below).
We are looking at updating the Normal.RTF to set the List override for MasterList as a default. When this is available there will be a help page reference for this.

_____List numbering ________
With numbering across multiple documents what is critical is to create a Numbering List in the Normal.Rtf template and ensure that all your templates are then copies of this file to ensure the numbering Identifier is the same for List Numbers you create in the multiple templates forming a Virtual Document.
  
To use List numbering across multiple documents you need to add a List Override and then add a List Level to the Normal.rtf template - for details on updating the Normal.rtf see:
http://www.sparxsystems.com/enterprise_architect_user_guide/9.3/reporting/the_normal_rtf_style_template.html
  
The Native Normal.rtf does include "MasterList" List numbering, but this needs to be set as a List Override.
With the Normal.rtf in the template editor
- Select from the Context menu:
  Edit | List Overrides | Create List Override
- From the List Overrides Properties dialog - select "MasterList" and click on OK.
   Nb: the List Item "MasterList" can be found when creating a new template from the standard Normal.rtf.
  
Now set the Override (and make any changes to the formatting) using:
- Edit | List and Overrides | Edit List Override > Level Selection | (x) List Overrides
- Select List: Masterlist - Override #1 from this drop-down.
- Click on OK.
  
- In the Editor create some text (to be removed later).
- Highlight this text
- Select from the context menu: Paragraph | List Numbering (opens a dialog)
- Select List: Masterlist - Override #1
- Click on OK.
  
Then you should be able to set the paragraph numbering using:
- Paragraph | Numbering
- Paragraph | List Numbering - set the list to  List: Masterlist - Override #1
  
Remove the text in your template and save the Normal.rtf  as described in the above help page (to  %APPDATA%\Sparx Systems\EA\RTF Templates).
  
Now you can now create multiple new templates, but the using "Copy Template:" option of "None" to start with the updated Normal.rtf template.
  
The new templates should have under - Paragraph | List Numbering - the List: Masterlist - Override #1
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