Author Topic: ArchiMate 3?  (Read 7320 times)

Paolo F Cantoni

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ArchiMate 3?
« on: May 30, 2016, 03:26:03 pm »
I got a tweet from a competitive product suggesting ArchiMate 3 will be released in June.

Anybody know anything about this or where I can get any documentation on what's coming up?

TIA,
Paolo

[Edit: See: http://irmuk.co.uk/eac2016/day2.cfm#Day2PS1]
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 03:47:28 pm by Paolo F Cantoni »
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Simon M

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Re: ArchiMate 3?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2016, 08:50:29 am »
Yes, I have been made aware that it's coming too.

If you are after details of the contents of the specification, I think the Open Group keeps details of upcoming specifications closed to non-members until release.
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Glassboy

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Re: ArchiMate 3?
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2016, 09:24:46 am »
If you are after details of the contents of the specification, I think the Open Group keeps details of upcoming specifications closed to non-members until release.

Well of course, how else could they hope to clip the ticket otherwise.

KP

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Re: ArchiMate 3?
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2016, 10:15:19 am »
If you are after details of the contents of the specification, I think the Open Group keeps details of upcoming specifications closed to non-members until release.

Well of course, how else could they hope to clip the ticket otherwise.

You're talking Kiwi again... "clip the ticket"?
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Glassboy

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Re: ArchiMate 3?
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2016, 10:35:09 am »
If you are after details of the contents of the specification, I think the Open Group keeps details of upcoming specifications closed to non-members until release.

Well of course, how else could they hope to clip the ticket otherwise.

You're talking Kiwi again... "clip the ticket"?

Ummmm maybe.  http://tvnz.co.nz/fair-go/clipping-ticket-3568710

Sunshine

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Re: ArchiMate 3?
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2016, 10:48:51 am »
Yes I was given an overview of changes to ArchiMate a little while ago and told it was going to be released in June 2016.
Can't say much on details - confidentiality and all that.
Looking forward to it.

Glassboy

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Re: ArchiMate 3?
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2016, 12:52:58 pm »
Yes I was given an overview of changes to ArchiMate a little while ago and told it was going to be released in June 2016.
Can't say much on details - confidentiality and all that.
Looking forward to it.

Beyond burning it to the ground and starting again I'm not sure how it make a difference.

I was given a solution design the other day which consisted of every Archimate layer and sequence diagrams.  I can absolutely say that none of the Archimate views added any value to the document.  None of the views lent themselves to analyzing what was needed to manage the life-cycle of the application or how it maybe integrated into a larger ecosystem or interfaced with directly.  The business layer did not correlate with the business' own process models.  As far as I could see it was all valid Archimate and not the normal mess that i see in designs.

Paolo F Cantoni

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Re: ArchiMate 3?
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2016, 02:40:41 pm »
Beyond burning it to the ground and starting again I'm not sure how it make a difference.

I was given a solution design the other day which consisted of every ArchiMate layer and sequence diagrams.  I can absolutely say that none of the ArchiMate views added any value to the document.  None of the views lent themselves to analyzing what was needed to manage the life-cycle of the application or how it maybe integrated into a larger ecosystem or interfaced with directly.  The business layer did not correlate with the business' own process models.  As far as I could see it was all valid ArchiMate and not the normal mess that I see in designs.
(my emphasis)

A couple of points:  I think we can confuse the language with the speakers...  A fool with a tool is still a fool (but unfortunately a more empowered one).

At least getting everyone to speak the same language is a start, surely?

Then we can get them to speak it well.

I'm battling just getting coherent English out of people - hence my Onto-Terminological models that help people understand how language works and how to use it effectively.

I accept that ArchiMate has limitations, but at least it's not the normal mess that I see in designs.

Paolo
Inconsistently correct systems DON'T EXIST!
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Sunshine

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Re: ArchiMate 3?
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2016, 06:55:22 pm »
I concur with Paolo - fool with a tool is still a fool. Choose any language; English, UML, ArchiMate, BPMN etc. and there will be people who can't use them effectively. Sounds like the author of the ArchiMate diagrams you saw fits into that category. Similarly I've seen really bad UML and BPMN diagrams produced that provide no value. On the other hand I've seen lots of people use ArchiMate well and provide real value.

ArchiMate v2.1 is reasonably good for Enterprise Architecture level work to show how things hang together. ArchiMate V3.0 seems like it will be better. BPMN is good for detailed processes and UML good for Solution Design and detailed software design. The trick is to know when to use which and how to blend them together.

A common anti-pattern I see is that people see a modelling language like ArchiMate and use it for the wrong purpose. Kind of like when I was teaching my daughter at the age of 10 some woodwork. She picked up a screw driver to hammer in a nail. ???

« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 06:57:19 pm by Sunshine »

Glassboy

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Re: ArchiMate 3?
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2016, 07:09:13 am »
ArchiMate v2.1 is reasonably good for Enterprise Architecture level work to show how things hang together. ArchiMate V3.0 seems like it will be better. BPMN is good for detailed processes and UML good for Solution Design and detailed software design. The trick is to know when to use which and how to blend them together.

You're welcome to surprise me, but I'm yet to see anything that has a hope in hell of passing the look back in five years time and still have meaning test.

From some of the discussion I saw on linked in it appeared that they are talking about dropping application collaboration and interactions; which is ironically the area I'd like to see strengthened to hopefully offer a better way of explaining integration.

Paolo F Cantoni

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Re: ArchiMate 3?
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2016, 10:28:15 am »
[SNIP]

A common anti-pattern I see is that people see a modelling language like ArchiMate and use it for the wrong purpose. Kind of like when I was teaching my daughter at the age of 10 some woodwork. She picked up a screw driver to hammer in a nail. ???
Funny, for the first time in decades, in the last three days I've (now) twice mentioned my first "professional gig" in IT, some 30 plus years ago:

I was asked to fix a Library Magazine distribution system written in SPSS!!!  Why SPSS?  It was the only language the author (a librarian - not me) knew.

Paolo
Inconsistently correct systems DON'T EXIST!
... Therefore, aim for consistency; in the expectation of achieving correctness....
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Al King

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Re: ArchiMate 3?
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2016, 02:30:35 am »
So,  ArchiMate 3.0 is published.  See https://www2.opengroup.org/ogsys/catalog/C162.

When will Sparx support this version?

Sunshine

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Re: ArchiMate 3?
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2016, 07:48:03 am »

Sunshine

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Re: ArchiMate 3?
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2016, 08:03:54 am »
So,  ArchiMate 3.0 is published.  See https://www2.opengroup.org/ogsys/catalog/C162.

When will Sparx support this version?
Good question. I'm interested in the answer too. Would be good if it was in the next release of version of V13 please?

Simon M

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Re: ArchiMate 3?
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2016, 09:25:40 am »
So,  ArchiMate 3.0 is published.  See https://www2.opengroup.org/ogsys/catalog/C162.

When will Sparx support this version?
When our implementation is ready.
Simon

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