Author Topic: Build 846 - notes crippled in RTF export  (Read 7134 times)

FreddoFrog

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Re: Build 846 - notes crippled in RTF export
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2009, 09:35:31 am »
I can add that for us the problem occurs in MS Office 2007 Enterprise addition in the office and the files also play up at home where I am running Office XP.

The only work-around that we have acheived is to revert back to an earlier build of EA on one machine and we generate our documentation on that machine alone.

Paolo F Cantoni

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Re: Build 846 - notes crippled in RTF export
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2009, 11:29:46 am »
Quote
Quote
Actualy I shoud qualify the above statement, we do hope to have this resolved  in the next release, however it does apear that this is reproducible only in specifc releases of Word.  We are still checking this out.
So 'resolve' is correct, not 'resolution'? :D
Nope... you can't have a "resolve for the issue"...  But it was a GOOD try!
But you're forgiven as an American...  (though as a namesake of George Bernard...)

Paolo
Inconsistently correct systems DON'T EXIST!
... Therefore, aim for consistency; in the expectation of achieving correctness....
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jeshaw2

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Re: Build 846 - notes crippled in RTF export
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2009, 12:07:11 pm »
Quote
Quote
Quote
Actualy I shoud qualify the above statement, we do hope to have this resolved  in the next release, however it does apear that this is reproducible only in specifc releases of Word.  We are still checking this out.
So 'resolve' is correct, not 'resolution'? :D
Nope... you can't have a "resolve for the issue"...  But it was a GOOD try!

But you're forgiven as an American...  (though as a namesake of George Bernard...)

Paolo
I was thinking they "have a resolve to fix this issue..." ;D

BTW: George is Irish and a namesake of the Scot's great Clan Shaw who were among Chieftains of Clan Chattan. 8-)
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 12:08:20 pm by jeshaw2 »
Verbal Use Cases aren't worth the paper they are written upon.

Paolo F Cantoni

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Re: Build 846 - notes crippled in RTF export
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2009, 12:18:30 pm »
Quote
I was thinking they "have a resolve to fix this issue..." ;D

BTW: George is Irish and a namesake of the Scot's Clan Shaw who were among Chieftains of Clan Chattan. 8-)
I KNOW you were thinking that - I DID say it was a good try!  But that's NOT what was said...

This is exactly what Language Entropy is about...

Paolo
(When did "I could care less" gain currency among the illiterati?)
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jeshaw2

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Re: Build 846 - notes crippled in RTF export
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2009, 12:23:24 pm »
I figured you knew.  I just noted that I didn't say it either.  :-[
Jim
Verbal Use Cases aren't worth the paper they are written upon.

RoyC

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Re: Build 846 - notes crippled in RTF export
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2009, 03:04:07 pm »
Paulo

Can you just clarify what you mean by "Language Entropy"?  

Entropy 'is the quantitative measure of disorder in a system'. Disorder in a system is increased by the introduction of energy, such as through greater use, stress and challenge.  

I just have a feeling you might actually be thinking of Language Atrophy, where atrophy is a decrease in size and flexibility, and an increase in rigidity (and therefore order) brought about by lack of use, and lack of challenge to the structure.

Which one are you referring to?
Best Regards, Roy

Paolo F Cantoni

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Re: Build 846 - notes crippled in RTF export
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2009, 04:21:00 pm »
Quote
Paulo

Can you just clarify what you mean by "Language Entropy"?  

Entropy 'is the quantitative measure of disorder in a system'. Disorder in a system is increased by the introduction of energy, such as through greater use, stress and challenge.  

I just have a feeling you might actually be thinking of Language Atrophy, where atrophy is a decrease in size and flexibility, and an increase in rigidity (and therefore order) brought about by lack of use, and lack of challenge to the structure.

Which one are you referring to?
Hi Roy,

I DO mean Entropy... I have had it put to me in the past that I meant atrophy (by no less than Linguistic PhDs).  But they were arty types and didn't understand entropy in the scientific sense.

Increasing Entropy is, generally, a bad thing.  Colloquially when we say entropy (unqualified) we imply increasing entropy.  Since it takes a lot of effort (according to the second law of thermodynamics) to reverse the effects of entropy.

So while there may be more energy being input, disorder is increasing.

I'm not against language changing!  Creative use of language (in new and exciting ways) is a joy to behold.  It's the change in language brought about by uncorrected misuse that gets me.  People, in general, don't set about to create novel uses for existing words.  They just (for all sorts of reasons - and present company included) get it wrong!  Nobody bothers to correct them and so they think it was OK.

Until recently, if I got something wrong, only my village got to hear the mistake.  Nowadays, someone on the Net or in popular media gets something wrong and millions of people hear it - and assume it's correct usage.

Dictionaries are no use since they just record usage.  Hence you can get two totally contradictory meanings for the same term (see the definition of our previous Prime Minister's favourite word - resile).  But people still imbue them with the authority they no longer have...  If it's in the dictionary it must be right...  NO!  As an aside, I once accused Sue Butler (of Macquarie Dictionary fame) on live radio of "adding to the entropy of the language".  Funnily enough - they cut me off after that!

When we need to communicate unambiguously - such as in systems building and other difficult human endeavours, we need to ensure we understand each other fully.

I got started on this modelling lark over thirty years ago when I came across the writings of a rather obscure French professor of Informatics called Jean Raymond Abrial - who said:  "The reason we can't build systems that work is we can't describe unambiguously what we want to build."  Thirty years later.... "The reason we can't build...."

Abrial, by the way, taught Bertrand Meyer of Eiffel fame.

So, do what you can to combat language entropy...

Paolo
Inconsistently correct systems DON'T EXIST!
... Therefore, aim for consistency; in the expectation of achieving correctness....
-Semantica-
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Martin Terreni

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Re: Build 846 - notes crippled in RTF export
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2009, 04:00:27 pm »
Very nice all this liguistic tals, but any plans to fix the actual issue?
Recursion definition:
If you don’t understand the definition read "Recursion definition".

RoyC

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Re: Build 846 - notes crippled in RTF export
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2009, 04:47:15 pm »
Yes; as Dermot says, we are checking through the various instances of Word (or possibly Office) to see what the difference is that makes the difference. The contributions from Freddo Frog and Steve Irving are interesting.
Best Regards, Roy

salayande

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Re: Build 846 - notes crippled in RTF export
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2009, 08:49:03 pm »
I created a simple data dictionary template (attribute full name and notes) in 847 and the notes text are so mangled up. It does not do this in a consistent fashion.

I urgently require a workaround as a fix may be too late (the reputation of EA is being damaged). The document was circulated in error to operational management in the business and they are asking embarrasing questions about the software.

Oliver F.

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Re: Build 846 - notes crippled in RTF export
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2009, 03:41:31 pm »
Returning from a three weeks vacation I was surprised to see the effects of what I seem to have triggered :)

In the meantime I tested the various suggestions as well as the new build and it still occurs.

If there is anything I can try out please let me know.

RoyC

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Re: Build 846 - notes crippled in RTF export
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2009, 03:46:37 pm »
Segun

Have you put in an urgent supprt request to Sparx Support? Whilst the developers are working on the fix, Support might be able to help you with a workaround.
Best Regards, Roy

salayande

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Re: Build 846 - notes crippled in RTF export
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2009, 05:19:14 pm »
I dont find this saga funny. Where is the professionalism in all this?
The clock is ticking for me and I am hung over my laptop waiting for a solution to save the day which is now turning to days.

Segun

Oliver F.

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Re: Build 846 - notes crippled in RTF export
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2009, 05:49:06 pm »
Quote
I dont find this saga funny. Where is the professionalism in all this?
The clock is ticking for me and I am hung over my laptop waiting for a solution to save the day which is now turning to days.

Segun, I can totally reproduce the need for a quick solution. I am waiting for a solution for 5 weeks now. On the other hand I have to accept that due to the variants of MS Word deployments with various language and localisation settings there is no easy solution and I was aware about this when I filed the issue. From my experience RTF issues have always been hard to resolve and from my perspective I want a stable and working solution instead of a quick and dirty one which breaks things on the other side of the globe again.
So there are two workarounds for me: Going back to 835 or using a different templating and reporting mechanism. One was introduced in the forums here and is based on XSL stylesheets though I can't remember the name. A quixk search should help.

I expect a solution each day now.

Regards,

Oliver

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Re: Build 846 - notes crippled in RTF export
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2009, 09:49:52 pm »
Please forgive me for asking the obvious but...

Have any of you sent in the complete configuration you are using? By this I mean the version and service pack of MS Word and any other component in the chain and any Windows settings such as region, language, and keyboard layout that can affect how MS Office handles new files. And have you provided a sample project that displays the problem in that configuration (via either email to Sparx Support or the Registered Users bug report form)?

I know these are 'motherhood' steps, but Sparx does seem to be looking into the problem. They seem to be having a configuration issue though.
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