Author Topic: Show several instances of the same element on one diagram  (Read 3567 times)

Paolo F Cantoni

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Re: Show several instances of the same element on one diagram
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2018, 09:52:24 am »
Hi Glassboy,

You are correct, it is isn't a model or element problem, but a viewpoint problem.  However to solve the essential problem - how to show more than one rendering of an item on a diagram hasn't changed.  As I mentioned previously, Sparx has ALMOST solved the problem with the VCE.  With the VCE you can have as many "legitimate" copies of the original item on the same diagram as you need, you just can render them as though they were a real item.  Sparx just needs to give the VCE item a real existence in t_diagramobjects so that it can be rendered in an analogous way to the original item.

There are implementation issues, but I really don't think it's rocket science.

Paolo
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Glassboy

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Re: Show several instances of the same element on one diagram
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2018, 10:45:30 am »
You are correct, it is isn't a model or element problem, but a viewpoint problem.  However to solve the essential problem - how to show more than one rendering of an item on a diagram hasn't changed.

Sure but I'm yet to see any instance where it was really needed for ArchiMate, as all times I have seen someone claim they did they were creating a Frankenview.

matthew.james

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Re: Show several instances of the same element on one diagram
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2018, 03:49:48 pm »
I'd suggest two things.  Firstly the larger view may satisfy a desire you have but may not be the best communication tool.  Secondly don't start at that point.  See if you can create a number of A4 landscape views of the major application components and the application services they serve.  Once you have those print them all out and see if you can add application collaboration elements in a way that make sense.

Then and only then jump up to your wacky strategy level capabilities.  You might find that your capability map might be better as a mapping of capability to application function, or to technology function if you are consuming web services.  It will also allow you to include missing functions that are not being provided but are needed for the organisation to have the capability.

Let's just say for the sake of the discussion that I have done those A4 views (full transparency, I have done some but not all) and, more importantly, have traceability from capabilities through business services & processes down to application services and the underlying components.  These are great to understand, analyse and discover impact - and architects love them.  But for other stakeholders they are often too abstract and too theoretical - they don't think in models, they understand what they can see and touch.  They understand capabilities, processes and applications / systems but they don't always 'get' what an application function or a business service is.

You don't have a model or element problem, you have a viewpoint problem which is fairly typical with ArchiMate.

That's a fair comment, and I will happily admit that I am stretching both Sparx and Archimate in my attempts to create views for a variety of stakeholders - architects and technicians but also a non-technical, executive audience.  My goal was to build a 'business friendly' set of views to communicate the implications of the current architecture, supported by the more detailed models.  I'll also admit that I have tried (and failed) to do this in the past with other tools and have always ended up needing to revert to providing a Visio / PowerPoint layer over the top due to various different limitations with the views achievable. Frustratingly I am very close to achieving what (I think) will work, but there are just that couple of limitations that make it not quite achievable.

Glassboy

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Re: Show several instances of the same element on one diagram
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2018, 08:47:33 am »
I'd suggest two things.  Firstly the larger view may satisfy a desire you have but may not be the best communication tool.  Secondly don't start at that point.  See if you can create a number of A4 landscape views of the major application components and the application services they serve.  Once you have those print them all out and see if you can add application collaboration elements in a way that make sense.

Then and only then jump up to your wacky strategy level capabilities.  You might find that your capability map might be better as a mapping of capability to application function, or to technology function if you are consuming web services.  It will also allow you to include missing functions that are not being provided but are needed for the organisation to have the capability.

Let's just say for the sake of the discussion that I have done those A4 views (full transparency, I have done some but not all) and, more importantly, have traceability from capabilities through business services & processes down to application services and the underlying components.  These are great to understand, analyse and discover impact - and architects love them.  But for other stakeholders they are often too abstract and too theoretical - they don't think in models, they understand what they can see and touch.  They understand capabilities, processes and applications / systems but they don't always 'get' what an application function or a business service is.

Yeah well what you are coming across is the fact that the claim that ArchiMate is an "enterprise architecture" notation is complete bullshit.  To get a sense just how incomplete it is have a look at the EBMM (http://motivationmodel.com/).  Nick left Microsoft and started his own company so the conversation we were having about the next version dried up (for example a business role may require a licence or a warrent which then traces back to a legislative edict).  But you can get a grasp from the ontology as it stands now, just how many gaps exist in ArchiMate (like modelling what people use products for).   

You don't have a model or element problem, you have a viewpoint problem which is fairly typical with ArchiMate.

That's a fair comment, and I will happily admit that I am stretching both Sparx and Archimate in my attempts to create views for a variety of stakeholders - architects and technicians but also a non-technical, executive audience.  My goal was to build a 'business friendly' set of views to communicate the implications of the current architecture, supported by the more detailed models.  I'll also admit that I have tried (and failed) to do this in the past with other tools and have always ended up needing to revert to providing a Visio / PowerPoint layer over the top due to various different limitations with the views achievable. Frustratingly I am very close to achieving what (I think) will work, but there are just that couple of limitations that make it not quite achievable.

The key at that level is less is more, especially in the structure elements.  Stick to only those "moving parts" that everyone knows about.  Make sure you have your detailed views to show when needed to illustrate you understand the environment (there are lots of shit architects out there that cause scepticism in business users).

Paolo F Cantoni

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Re: Show several instances of the same element on one diagram
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2018, 09:46:36 am »
[SNIP]
... (there are lots of shit architects out there that cause scepticism in business users).
"in titulo, ergo sum" (with apologies to Rene)  (I am thus titled, therefore I must be)

Happy Friday everybody!

Paolo
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 09:55:21 am by Paolo F Cantoni »
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... Therefore, aim for consistency; in the expectation of achieving correctness....
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Glassboy

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Re: Show several instances of the same element on one diagram
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2018, 11:40:41 am »
"in titulo, ergo sum" (with apologies to Rene)
I like the Billy Bragg cover.