Author Topic: Sparx EA - Dropped from latest EA Tool report from Gartner, Pity.....  (Read 4203 times)


Geert Bellekens

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Re: Sparx EA - Dropped from latest EA Tool report from Gartner, Pity.....
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2020, 11:13:35 pm »
That is such nonsense. >:(

I have worked with some of those tools, and they generally can't even do half of what EA can.
But maybe Sparx stopped sponsoring the Gartner events? ???

Geert

Sunshine

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Re: Sparx EA - Dropped from latest EA Tool report from Gartner, Pity.....
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2020, 07:51:14 am »
Indeed I've evaluated a lot of the magic quadrant tools and whilst occasionally they have features i wish Sparx EA had most of the time I find too many weaknesses to justify any possibility of using for real world work. They are often overpriced and lack graphical capability or ability to scale due bad choices in repository technology. Similarly Gartner themselves are over priced and under deliver on providing advice and guidance. I tend to use the others rather than rely on the misinformation provided by Gartner. I honestly don't understand how Gartner continue as a business with the waffle and tripe they produce.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 08:14:27 am by Sunshine »
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qwerty

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Re: Sparx EA - Dropped from latest EA Tool report from Gartner, Pity.....
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2020, 07:26:59 pm »
Who cares? Anyone of you selling EA licenses?

q.

Geert Bellekens

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Re: Sparx EA - Dropped from latest EA Tool report from Gartner, Pity.....
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2020, 08:02:05 pm »
Who cares? Anyone of you selling EA licenses?

q.
I care. Not really because of the licenses I sell, but because EA is my livelihood.
More users => more consulting demand => more work for me.

Geert

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Re: Sparx EA - Dropped from latest EA Tool report from Gartner, Pity.....
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2020, 07:05:25 am »
Who cares? Anyone of you selling EA licenses?

q.
Clearly you don't.
To be honest I'm sick and tired of fake news and misinformation
Happy to help
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qwerty

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Re: Sparx EA - Dropped from latest EA Tool report from Gartner, Pity.....
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2020, 10:42:28 am »
Where's the fake news then? Only Gartner's thruth is Gartner's truth. Anyone asked for the reason for dropping EA as EA tool?

q.

steen.jensen

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Re: Sparx EA - Dropped from latest EA Tool report from Gartner, Pity.....
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2020, 11:28:31 am »
Sorry, i didn't want to upset you, just point out that Gartner removed Sparx EA because Sparx Systems didnt want to participate in the report for unknown resoning. :'(

Im the only guy that defend Sparx EA in my organisation....

Most middle manager whant a tool that is easy & more visible solution and they read stuff like Gartner & Forester at breakfast.

We are trying with Pro CLoud Server & Prolaborate, but the operating & maintance of this setup is more costly now compare when we selected the original Sparx EA setup for about 4 years ago.

Time will se if I can keep this product or we have to check for alternativs in the feature.

Richard Freggi

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Re: Sparx EA - Dropped from latest EA Tool report from Gartner, Pity.....
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2020, 02:39:48 pm »
That's an interesting discussion.
In my opinion Sparx is too complex to use for large companies (Gartner's target audience).  Multinationals want cheap generic employees doing cheap generic work as cheaply as possible, and just good enough to get by (especially in IT).  To use EA to anywhere near its capabilities you need to REALLY understand UML AND SQL (for model queries) AND its API.
If you are a professional, Sparx is a great (maybe the best) tool.  It's just that it's not part of Gartner's target audience.

qwerty

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Re: Sparx EA - Dropped from latest EA Tool report from Gartner, Pity.....
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2020, 10:54:17 pm »
That's my opinion too, Richard. @steen: nobody is upset. It's just a discussion like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv5iEK-IEzw

Carl

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Re: Sparx EA - Dropped from latest EA Tool report from Gartner, Pity.....
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2020, 02:49:37 am »
It seems punitive.  I think it's unfortunate.  American MBA's are conditioned to use this kind of report in making business decisions.

Gartner's always had a "niche" or "visionary" quadrant for smaller companies.

A truly independent study wouldn't require the vendor's participation.

Uffe

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Re: Sparx EA - Dropped from latest EA Tool report from Gartner, Pity.....
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2020, 11:04:58 pm »
Ring. Hat. Toss.

In my opinion Sparx is too complex to use for large companies (Gartner's target audience).  Multinationals want cheap generic employees doing cheap generic work as cheaply as possible, and just good enough to get by (especially in IT).  To use EA to anywhere near its capabilities you need to REALLY understand UML AND SQL (for model queries) AND its API.
If you are a professional, Sparx is a great (maybe the best) tool.  It's just that it's not part of Gartner's target audience.

See, now that's interesting. I see it a little differently.

In my view EA is an enthusiast's tool -- not a professional's. In order to make good use of EA you need someone in the organization who knows the ins and outs of the tool. It's not enough to know the modelling language.

EA is a toolkit. It's a rag-bag of features that don't work well together, and which sometimes are different attempts to implement the same functionality. Unless you intend to work only within the tool, it comes with nothing to help you in any given usage scenario: no usable project setups, model structures, or document templates. What's there is all demo-level stuff. On the IT side of things, EA integrates poorly and clunkily. And even the extension mechanisms are limited: you can access the most basic functions through the API, but only a very small number of the high-level ones.
Navigating this quagmire requires deep insight, which must either be built up within the organization, or purchased from a third party. All of this makes EA a far more expensive tool to use than the purchase price would suggest.

As to this Gartner stuff, I don't think it's necessarily a big deal in and of itself. It's just marketing. If Sparx have taken the positive decision not to cooperate with Gartner for this report, that can be simply because they haven't see enough return on that in previous years.

But I am concerned for EA's future.

To some extent, the failure of EA is the failure of UML: it promised effective communication in all things software, but very quickly turned its back on all real world issues involved in software development and instead disappeared up its own backside, issuing new versions of the language standard with ever more complex syntax and semantics, but making no attempt at implementing profiles for any architectural patterns, design principles, or even source code languages. So if you take the trouble of teaching all stakeholders a completely alien symbolic language, you can then use it to express... nothing that actually matches the reality you encounter at any stage of the software development process.

The failure in both cases is one of attitude. Instead of facing inwards and trying to come up with more clever bits to bolt on, there needs to be a 180o shift of focus outwards to what the tool is actually used for. No one is ever going to do their project planning in EA, but they will use it to draw UML diagrams, and those diagrams need to be made easily available in other contexts.

I firmly believe that what EA needs is not yet more superficial features spread like manure across a weedy field. What it needs is, at the front end, packaging of sets of features for different real-world scenarios, with profiles, document templates, project structures, user security roles, version control setup, integrations with other tools, and locking off of extraneous features. At the back end, it needs optimization in the data layer, a complete overhaul of the IT integration principles and a substantially expanded API.

I also believe that we the community could help Sparx in this. We have the expertise in using this tool in the wild; Sparx don't. They don't supply their own consultants, and internally, they only develop one piece of software so even if they do eat their own dog food it's only one flavour of one brand.
So we could actually help in prioritizing what improvements to make and what features to focus on for a given goal, eg reducing cost of adoption in mid-to-large organizations. But that would of course also require a higher level of community commitment from Sparx.

Well, that's what I think anyway.


/Uffe
My theories are always correct, just apply them to the right reality.

qwerty

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Re: Sparx EA - Dropped from latest EA Tool report from Gartner, Pity.....
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2020, 09:07:59 am »
Well spoken. The forest is listening patiently.

Sarcasm aside, I'm completely with you. Except that I don't think Sparx can be helped in any way. How many good will attempts have been started? And where does Sparx steer? Yesterday we stood in front of a deep ravine. Today we're a step further.

I'm no longer willing to pay for a product that gets worse every year.

q.

TomO

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Re: Sparx EA - Dropped from latest EA Tool report from Gartner, Pity.....
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2020, 11:43:53 am »
Hi All,
After reviewing the inclusion criteria for the 2020 Magic Quadrant we found that the Performance and Tools Market Focus sections are straightforward and clearly met by Sparx Systems. However, the section entitled Market Momentum, which requires Sparx to divulge customer information is in violation of both our ethical and our privacy standards. While we have clearly met the underlying condition of entry, we will not violate our customer's right to privacy or act contrary to our own standards. Anonymous statistics concerning license sales were insufficient for the Gartner Research team, so we unfortunately had to bow out of this year's MQ.

Thank you all for your continued support.

Sunshine

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Re: Sparx EA - Dropped from latest EA Tool report from Gartner, Pity.....
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2020, 03:04:12 pm »
Hi All,
After reviewing the inclusion criteria for the 2020 Magic Quadrant we found that the Performance and Tools Market Focus sections are straightforward and clearly met by Sparx Systems. However, the section entitled Market Momentum, which requires Sparx to divulge customer information is in violation of both our ethical and our privacy standards. While we have clearly met the underlying condition of entry, we will not violate our customer's right to privacy or act contrary to our own standards. Anonymous statistics concerning license sales were insufficient for the Gartner Research team, so we unfortunately had to bow out of this year's MQ.

Thank you all for your continued support.
Well done Spark Systems on sticking to your guns on privacy ethics and standards as well as the law.


Interesting if that is true it implies the other tool vendors by the fact they are on the MQ have supplied customer details in which case it begs the question if they asked permission. Maybe its hidden in the licensing agreement. If those vendors failed to seek permission from their customers then in some countries they will have violated the privacy laws. Europe springs to mind with GDPR and a number of other countries with privacy laws such as UK, Australia and New Zealand are others. I wonder if anyone will raise this for investigation and follow up with legislative action if the laws have been breached. Sounds like it could keep a few lawyers busy for a while [size=78%];)[/size]

Happy to help
:)